Why did bắc nam become Bắc Nam?

“Nước non bờ cõi đã chia, phong tục Bắc Nam cũng khác.”

This famous line comes from the fifteenth-century “Bình Ngô đại cáo” (Great Proclamation upon the Pacification of the Ngô) by Nguyễn Trãi. Today it is often translated as something like:

“Just as the territories of the mountains are rivers are distinct, so are the customs of the North and South also different.”

“North” and “South” are interpreted as a reference to what we would today call “China” and “Vietnam,” and these two words are always capitalized in the Vietnamese versions as “Bắc Nam” to indicate this point.

As common sense as this reading has become, it is quite recent.

Trần Trọng Kim did not capitalize those two terms in his Việt Nam sử lược (1921). The editions that get published in Vietnam today follow this usage (at least the ones I’ve seen).

I have a 1950 second edition of a book printed in Saigon called Quốc văn cụ thể by Bùi Kỷ. He also did not capitalize “bắc nam.” And given that he does capitalize “Việt,” I would think that this means that he did not think that “bắc nam” here was referring to the “North” and “South.”

In 1952, Ưng-Quả made what I believe is the first French translation of the “Bình Ngô đại cáo,” and published it in the Bulletin de l’École française d’Extrême-Orient. He translated that line and the one before it as follows:

“Or notre État de Đai-Việt est incontestablement un pays où fleurissent la culture et les nobles institutions qui s’y rattachent. Les montagnes et les fleuves donnent à sa physionomie physique des aspects différents; du sud au nord les moeurs et les coutumes font d’autre part la variété (de sa physionomie morale).”

The way Ưng-Quả interpreted this line was that the mountains and rivers provided variety to Đại Việt’s physical character, whereas the different customs and mores provided variety to Đại Việt’s moral character. In other words, he clearly saw the “north” and “south” as referring to areas within the Kingdom of Đại Việt.

I then have a third edition of Mạc Bảo Thần’s translation of the Lam Sơn thực lục from 1956. This work was published in Saigon. Here again, “bắc” and “nam” are not capitalized, although “Việt” is.

Then there is Trường Bửu Lâm’s English translation from 1967. He says in his brief introduction to the translation that “The opening passage invokes the principle of the autonomy of Vietnam in its relationship to China and claims for Vietnam a destiny separate from China’s.”

Trường Bửu Lâm then translated the opening passage as follows:

“Our state of Dai Viet is indeed a country wherein culture and institutions have flourished. Our mountains and rivers have their characteristic features, but our habits and customs are not the same from north to south.”

Finally, we can look at a 1972 translation of Bùi Huy Bích’s Hoàng Việt văn tuyển that was published in Saigon. It also does not capitalize “north” and “south.”

So there clearly appears to have been a tradition of reading that line with the “bắc” and “nam” as un-capitalized and as referring to differences within Đại Việt. This tradition appears to have begun during the colonial period, and it continued to be upheld in South Vietnam.

What happened in other areas?

In 1949, there was a history published in Thuận Hóa by Dương Kỵ called the Việt sử khảo lược. It cited the “Bình Ngô đại cáo,” but not the passage which mentions “north” and “south.”

Also in 1949, Phạm Văn Sơn published his Việt Nam tranh đấu sử, although I am not certain where it was published. It does cite that passage from the “Bình Ngô đại cáo,” but it does not capitalize “bắc” and “nam.”

Moving to Hanoi, Nguyễn Duy Phương’s 1945 Lịch sử độc lập và nội các đầu tiên Việt Nam cites the translation of Trần Trọng Kim who of course did not capitalize those terms.

In 1951, Nguyễn Ngọc Kim published a work in Hanoi on the author of the “Bình Ngô đại cáo” entitled Nguyễn Trãi: Thân thế và sự nghiệp. Nguyễn Ngọc Kim likewise did not capitalize those terms, and in the passage of his text before he presents the “Bình Ngô đại cáo” he mentions “our Southern heroes” (anh hùng Nam ta) and capitalizes the word for “South.”

So it seems clear that Nguyễn Ngọc Kim felt that it was necessary to capitalize that term when one referred to the “the South” as a country. And yet in the “Bình Ngô đại cáo” he did not capitalize that term.

One work which I have not been able to consult, but would love to, is an article in a 1955 issue of the journal Văn sử địa in which it was debated whether the “Bình Ngô đại cáo” should be included in Vietnamese literature. The conclusion was that it should, but it is interesting that such a discussion took place.

Jumping ahead to 1972, we find that an anthology of Vietnamese literature in French translation was published in Hanoi, and that here the translation makes it perfectly clear that the “bắc” and “nam” were now being interpreted to mean “Bắc” and “Nam.” To quote,

“Terre du Sud, elle a ses fleuves, ses montagnes,

Ses moeurs, ses coutumes, distinctes de ceux du Nord.”

“The land of the South has its rivers and mountains,

And its mores and customs that are distinct from those of the North.”

And finally, when the collected works of Nguyễn Trãi were published in Hanoi in 1976, “bắc” and “nam” were now “Bắc” and “Nam.”

What these above works indicate is that the current reading of that now-famous line in the “Bình Ngô đại cáo” was decided upon in North Vietnam at some point in the 1950s-1960s.

That being the case, I think it is logical to ask some questions: Is that reading accurate? How do we know? Why was that reading agreed upon at that place and at that time? Was it because the scholars there produced work that was more insightful than scholars had before? Was it superior to the work of their contemporaries in South Vietnam? Or should we look to other factors, such as the influence of nationalism and wartime politics, to explain this change?

Why did bắc nam become Bắc Nam?

8 thoughts on “Why did bắc nam become Bắc Nam?

  1. I must say this is one of the best posts from you for some time now. Upon having read what you have written here, there are several issues I would like to share. These issues are not necessarily relevant to your post, but I believe they serve as important background information that might help answer part of your wonder so far, which is why ‘Vietnamese scholarship’ is so nationalistic and why there hasn’t been any Vietnamese trying to deconstruct ancient and pre-modern historical myths. I kind of read between the lines of your posts up to now and come up with my own interpretation of your wonder/curiosity, and I apologise if my interpretation is not accurate. Still, I hope what I am going to write is useful in one or another way.

    Having seen all the publications you have listed here on this post and how you have referred to them and explained the sources as well as the historical contexts of some, I am very impressed with your knowledge and the great resources you can access and base on to shed light on the past. But this also makes me think a lot about the ‘library’ experience I had during my education in Vietnam. Our university had a decent size library with books and journals, mainly in Vietnamese. There were not many books though, but for us in those days we did think we had so many books to read. None of us in the university had ever been given any training on how to use the library resources, although the main resource we had then were hard copies of everything. There was not any electronic database of any sorts; however the most basic skills required to utilise the library resources were almost absent among all of us. This was also because the library was considered ‘the property’ of our librarians and so they watched us very closely and we couldn’t access any books without their consent. I am sure this was also the experience of many Vietnamese people who read your blog here. We were most often unaware of the existence of so many titles on the same topic, as whatever book we could borrow from the library then was already something so precious and as such we (or at least I) tended to study the book as if it was the only source of knowledge on the topic I was studying.

    The library culture of those days created a certain habit of using resources and of seeing knowledge as coming from one limited source. I can say rather boldly here that many of us were and still are library illiterate, meaning that we just don’t know how to use the library and sources effectively. Library is a field of study in itself and university students in universities in many parts of the world do receive good training about how to use their library. Library is there for people to use and explore, not a kind of privilege that some students can access and others can’t.

    In addition to the library culture in Vietnam that I and many others experienced as mentioned above, the presentation of only certain books or texts on any single topic that we could access also tended to limit our worldview and led to the assumption that what was in those books was the only and absolute truth. We did not really develop much analytical and comparative skill either. It was not because we didn’t have the ability to learn and master that skill. It was because that skill was not nurtured under those conditions.

    When this lack of comparative skill and the unawareness of the existence of all different sources on any single topic became a dominant way to approach knowledge and scholarship, it wouldn’t surprise to see extreme reactions to whatever information that is different and opposite to what had been presented before. Many of these reactions are emotional and often driven by a strong sense of nationalism and patriotism. But this is rather natural, I would say. However, this would be dangerous when nationalist and patriotic emotion prevents people from engaging with alternative and different perspectives. Many people tend to hold firm to the limited ‘truth’ they know in ways that block all kinds of dialogues and conversations, unless others agree with them.

    In the same vein, nationalist and patriotic emotion could also lead to people overreacting to anything that they perceive as ‘anti’ or dangerous to their country, and they thus tend to attack all these views no matter what. They tend to disapprove of any validity evident in these views, although they may know that these views do make great sense and do provide a legitimate way to view the world. This is because their emotion just can’t let them accept any different views. I see this as contributing to producing and reproducing weak scholarship.

    And what is more is that nationalist and patriotic emotion could also lead to reverse effect when the celebration of the greatness of the nation becomes the most important sentiment and spirit. In a major international conference in China a few years ago, the audience saw how Chinese scholars proudly showed the whole world how great China was, how excellent their scholarship was, and how extraordinary their intellectual heritage was. If they had just been showing how great they were, that would have been somehow acceptable and understandable; but in showing how great they were, they were referring to all the others as ‘inferior’ and insignificant to China or ‘mean’ to China. There was a strong shared sentiment among many Chinese scholars at that conference about this greatness of China, but at the same time there was an equally strong sense of ‘shame’ and ‘discomfort’ among many other Chinese, many of whom were not from mainland China. And so right during the height of the celebratory spirit that was ignited by a highly nationalist keynote address given by a Chinese scholar, someone from the audience stood up and spoke very assertively to the entire conference “We’re proud to be Chinese and we know our country and our ancestors are great, but our warm hearts must not cloud our minds. Having a cool mind is important here, as everyone coming from all over the world to China in this conference doesn’t want to be told how cruel they are, how short their history is while we only present the great bit of China.”. The entire audience got stunned and couldn’t even react for a few moments, and suddenly everyone clapped hands to show their agreement with what the person had said. Interestingly, a few American scholars in the audience kept nodding their heads and one turned to me saying “I feel terrible being American over the past few days in this conference, as almost every presentation here condemned America and Americans. Oh I feel so sorry to be American that it was hard for me to be assertive in my talk”. And I told him “I felt so small and unimportant to be Vietnamese in this conference, as the greatness of China boasted here has overshadowed everyone else, particularly small countries and territories.”

    Walking out of that conference, I joined my friends and colleagues to do some sight seeings in China. We were able to feel the hospitality of our Chinese hosts and became so interested in learning more about everyday people’s lives. I met very poor farmers who looked so similar to poor farmers in Vietnam. They were humble, didn’t have enough to eat, didn’t have enough clothes to wear, walked on bare foot and smiled at me showing their missing teeth. They greeted me in Chinese and waved at me as I was leaving. I could smell something familiar in the air which I would call ‘the countryside scent’. I was thinking about my grandparents in the countryside back home and many afternoons when I was riding a buffalo to the field with my grandmother. I remember having the same feeling when I was walking in the rice field in Chiang Mai some time ago…

    Yes, what I experienced above is also a part of China and this is not in any way unimportant to any other glamorous or great parts of China. I want to engage with all these aspects, rather than just limiting myself to the dominant view of China that often projected as the ‘great’ China….

    I can write much more but I feel I should stop here.

  2. Thank you very much for posting this. I think it’s really insightful.

    Yes, “library culture” is not something we often think about, but it obviously has an enormous influence on the way people go about producing knowledge, on the knowledge they produce, and on what information they need to believe something.

    If in some places you can basically go anywhere in the library and look at anything you want, and in other places you only have limited access, then obviously that is going to have a major influence on knowledge production in those two places.

    Now with the Internet, information is becoming more available, but it is still not equal. Some information is only available through expensive databases that essentially require that one be affiliated with a university that has a subscription to the database to access it.

    So we are going from a world of different “library cultures” to one of different “Internet cultures.”

  3. 1.
    May I remind you, there is no capital letter in Chinese, (and no punctuation neither).
    That habit, you could easy find traces (I think) in many contemporary Vietnamese texts (quoc ngu scripts), where a supposed distinction is not there, more or less leave it for the readers to speculate.
    2.
    I’ve agreed “Nam, Bắc”, or “nam, bắc” in BNDC, is opened for interpretation, but its meaning, should be look beyond (a) the translation of of certain authors who has been translated it in to English (or French, do we have any?) and (b) how it is been written down in Vietnamese.
    My suggestion is – let’s read 平吳大告 in original text (as your claim), where “南 北” having no capital & punctuation:
    ….
    仁 義 之 舉, 務 在 安 民 吊 伐 之 師 莫 先 去 暴 惟 我 大 越 之 國 寔 為 文 献 之 邦 山 川 之 封 域 既 殊南 北 之 風 俗 亦 異 粵 趙 丁 李 陳 之 肇 造 我 國,

    3
    I’m reading Taylor’s new history book, do some searching and come to yours accidentally;
    Thx
    LeDonBan

    • My typo – should be:
      仁 義 之 舉 務 在 安 民 吊 伐 之 師 莫 先 去 暴 惟 我 大 越 之 國 寔 為 文 献 之 邦 山 川 之 封 域 既 殊南 北 之 風 俗 亦 異 粵 趙 丁 李 陳 之 肇 造 我 國

      i.e no punctuation
      Thx
      LDB

      • Thanks for the comment!!

        Yes I agree, we have to read the original. As I’m sure you know, even though there is no punctuation in classical Chinese, there are conventions for writing/reading that indicate where the punctuation we use today (commas, periods) would go, such as the use of parallelism, and certain characters like 惟 in the above passage.

        Another convention is to know that the subject is always understood to remain the same until another subject is introduced. In the above passage, 仁 義 之 舉 務 is the first subject, followed by 吊 伐 之 師 and then followed by 我 大 越 之 國 . As far as I can tell, 我 大 越 之 國 is still the subject when referring to 山 川 之 封域 and 南 北 之 風 俗.

        Taylor emphasizes the importance of regional differences (and regional conflicts) throughout Vietnamese history. Below the Ming occupation where regional/cultural differences between the Sinicized elite in the Ha Noi area and the less Sinicized world of the Thanh Hoa area.

        I think that the message of the BNDC is from the new Thanh Hoa leader, Le Loi, to the Sinicized Ha Noi elite who collaborated with the Ming – “Our land may have separate regions, but just as ‘China’ has been governed by one person (with the implied message here that it also has regional differences – think of the Three Kingdoms), so will we be governed by one person. . . ME!!”

        I agree that it’s important to look at the original and to not be distracted by what modern people have said about the text. I also think that it is important to look honestly at the historical reality (there is a lot of divisiveness in the Vietnamese past [as there is in the histories of probably every other place in the world]). When we do, I think we find that this south-north is referring to what we would today refer to as Thanh Hoa – Ha Noi.

  4. As per “Taylor emphasizes the importance of regional differences (and regional conflicts) throughout Vietnamese history. Below the Ming occupation where regional/cultural differences between the Sinicized elite in the Ha Noi area and the less Sinicized world of the Thanh Hoa area”.

    I would suggest if we propose the idea of division/conflict in this particular time, if you like to, it could be based more sustainable, on the division among followers of LeLoi and others, such as descendants of Tran. We can see clearly at least 3 groups, typical via 3 characters, all facing and responding to the Minh’s : NgTrai (follow LeLoi), PhanLieu (co-operate with Minh’s) and DangDung (follow Tran’s descendants), and operating within the area of ThanhHoa, NgheAn (GianDinhDe, TrungQuangDe), no need to call on Hanoi’s (regional conflicts). This division, conflict is real, strong, deep and long (after the war).

    That seems quite similar to what happened during the great war of 1945-1975, between followers of communists – (3th v/s 4th international), and others non-communists (so call nationalists), and French’s, American’s collaborators. Maybe we could look into LeDuan’s victory speech (15-5-1975, Hà Nội), to see if any echo of BNDC?

    Are you going to have a review of Taylor’s?

  5. “…詔諸軍 民不得服北人衣樣,及 效占牢等國語。 …”
    …Chiếu chư quân dân bất đắc phục BẮC nhân y dạng, cập hiệu Chiêm Lao đẳng quốc ngữ。…
    [Giáp Dần, Long Khánh năm thứ 2 (1347)]…Xuống chiếu cho quân và dân không được mặc áo, chải đầu theo người phương BẮC và bắt chước tiếng nói của các nước Chiêm, Lào….
    Another solid proof from 大越史記全書 (Đại Việt sử ký toàn thư) to prove that Nguyễn Trãi used “BẮC” to refer to CHINA/CHINESE PEOPLE, NOT “traitorous officials” [ngụy quan] and “NAM” to refer to DAI VIET (Vietnam)

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